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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 3, 2009 8:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I think that Earl has hit on the essence of the evolution for many of us that grew up in the 60s/70s (again, going with the assumption that many of us are 45-55).

Cynics and realists abound as we have seen the many failures of our political system. Sure, it still beats virtually all the alternatives, but we have become disappointed and hardened by one scandal after another. And, of course, the old adage that with family and age comes a modicum of "conservatism", esp with respect to fiscal matters, is a natural progression.

However, I would say that many retain some of what we might associate with the tenets of DEADISM (though those should be more clearly articulated...do we all agree on what those are???). EG, certainly all of us question authority ("...if you got nothing new to say..."); all of us imagine that those with a cause need careful scrutiny ("...I see you have your fist out..."), and any other examples of "enlightened social beings" that recognize the unexamined life ain't worth living.

In my view, self examination, questioning the status quo, and so forth, are important essentials of DEADism, and most all of us hereabouts espouse these important life values.

Now, it's another thing entirely to examine what personal CONCLUSIONS we each draw from these examinations. Point being, Gendel and I, versus (just for example! no offense guys!) Earl and Mando on some issue such as "welfare", might have decided on very different perspectives as to its utility, BUT all four of us have come to these two different positions via careful consideration of both the social justice of the matter, the fatally flawed status quo, etc., etc., etc.

So, I for one find that when you skim off the wacking trolling/agitation/etc arguments here at the Forum, in spite of our many differences, we in general have some very important approaches to getting by in this World that unite us more than they divide...

Somebody though should list what the 10 essential tenets of DEADISM really are...

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Sep 3, 2009 8:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I think there's two distinct elements of the notion of Deadisms. First is the music and how it speaks to us individually and perhaps universally. No question that it speaks to us, and for most, does it better than any other music ever made. For those outside the circle, we are stereotyped as a bunch of throwbacks. The truth is that what we most gravitate towards is the timeless qualities of this distinctly American music.

Unlike any form of guide to life and living, probably what the music speaks to best is the notion or essence of free will. Free will is not only American in it's constitutional origins, but the burden of our endowment from God. Jack Straw gives light to it by examining moral relativism in the line "took his rings, four bucks in change, ain't that heaven sent." The whole story, a simple Cowboy song, gives rise to examining our endowed free will and the consequences of shouldering that burden.

Time and time again these simple stories have choice and consequence as a theme, and where's there's choice, there's freedom. Choose wisely and perhaps there will be reward, choose the other way at your own peril. Ultimately freedom has no party, no liberal or conservative bent.

Second is a cultural freedom, which in the days that folks like Tell & myself were forging our own ideologies, was considered anarchy among both the left and the right. Our cultural statements in the 60's and early seventies were a radical departure from the do-right 50's. Seen as a threat to stalwart institutions such as church and government.

Ultimately a lot of the culture was absorbed into the mainstream as were the proponents of change. Individualism became the accepted norm. Long hair for men, blue jeans, cohabitation, pre-marital sex, rock and roll, once a sure trip to hell, now acceptable behavior. That also meant that we as individuals became accepted into society at large.

Once we accepted the fact that our generation wasn't going to change the world in a larger sense, and the world gave up on changing us, it was game over. Sucking in the seventies. Keep your head, but toil for your bread.

But the original seed of that individuality remains, the societal and biblical notion of live and let live. The real belief in the words "the pursuit of happiness." The rights of our brothers and sisters to privacy and protection from undue government intervention in our lives.

In the end, the core of our Deadism is about free choice and freedom from intervention into our lives. Both fundamentally conservative in nature as both biblical and constitutional. Our arguments and liberal vs. conservative political banter is really semantics as to how our government and their behavior effect these ideals.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 3, 2009 10:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Good expansion, Mr Earl. Nice.

And shiphappens: the "fiscal conservative, liberal whatchamacallit" is a nice term...you'd think I'd recall it better!

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Poster: Dhamma1 Date: Sep 3, 2009 9:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Nicely said

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Sep 3, 2009 8:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

"Somebody though should list what the 10 essential tenets of DEADISM really are... "

No! I hate it when people try to tell me what a "true Deadhead" is or what it means. Here's an old test for fun:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

There's an old thread where the wordsmith and I come out on the other side of rasta and earl - two folks' posts I've almost always enjoyed.

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Poster: boltman Date: Sep 5, 2009 11:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Didn't think to note my "score", but came out libertarian right (quadrant four).

I don't believe there is a political value associated with the Dead. I came out of SF in the 60's and have a certain life view that is reflective of that, but my life experiences have certainly contributed to my values more than the music has. Religious beliefs, in my case Christian, have shaped my viewpoints as well. Music, and the Grateful Dead's music, is an integral part of my everyday experience. I have worked in public education for the last 25 years and I believe those early convictions that are anchored in GDness led me into that career choice. Now I run two K-12 public charter schools in So Cal. Damn, what an inane ramble!

The point that I started with and I believe Tell made earlier is, that a basic mistrust of authority may be the only "political statement" one can derive from the Dead. I think that probably transcends political party. If nothing else, you can always dislike the party in power and that seems to change frequently enough to provide you with anti-authoritarian feelings. The latest Deadheads for Obama aside, I never got the sense that the band itself really had a political bent.

Having read the posts however, I can see that the forumites do.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell = Gandhi

My scores were -4.5 or so on both axes...

In case anyone wants to know...

Yes, as you all thought, I AM Gandhi!

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Poster: user unknown Date: Sep 4, 2009 3:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell = Gandhi

My political compass:
Economic Left/Right: -6.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.87

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 3:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell = Gandhi

Hmmm...that makes YOU, you UU, and then Rob & Hippie...interesting.

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Poster: veblen Date: Sep 4, 2009 3:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell = Gandhi

how does it feel to be compared to a prince-elector of the holy roman empire and gandhi in the same week!?!

maybe you are prime minister material...though those might be the highlights I am sure there is some negative troll-speak in which I missed...

of course that is outside of the comments relating to not listening to enough brent and vince...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 3:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell = Gandhi

Hey v--can guess where you come out (thinking "center, toward me" no offense meant!), but have to ask cause I must have missed it: there was a Pope ref?

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Poster: veblen Date: Sep 4, 2009 4:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell = Gandhi

that was interesting...thanks bluedevil...

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -2.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.82

maybe it should be done three times and the average used...I will take it one more time since I meant to copy the last page...

so I would like to have done this on 5 or 10 year intervals from high school on...seeing how I have changed from my Rockefeller Heinz Eastern Republican upbringing through the dark years in north tejas to my current time in san francisco...

anyway, I will start doing it going forward...

---

no pope reference that I recall, there was just the talk of you leading the holy roman empire...

so I thought they meant you were one of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince-elector

or it could have been this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Emperor


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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 6:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell = Gandhi

Oh, well in that case, you're right there with the rest of us: Rob, Hippie, UU, and you...

Cool.

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Poster: veblen Date: Sep 4, 2009 7:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell = Gandhi

you would like what I am listening to:

Cream
1967-11-14
Stockholm, Sweden

01 Introduction
02 Tales Of Brave Ulysses
03 Sunshine Of Your Love
04 Sleepy Time Time
05 Stepping Out
06 Train Time
07 Toad
08 I'm So Glad

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell = Gandhi

as was mine but unfotunatly I love to eat so a hunger strike strike is out of the question

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Thought I'd try it again to see if there had been any shift.

Last time:
Economic Left/Right: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.67

This time:
Economic Left/Right: -5.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.13

Looks like I'd better try harder to curb the latent fascist authoritarian tendencies that are obviously bubbling just under the surface of my crumbling social egalitarian facade...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 10:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I knew it! I knew it!

Glad to be aboard your finely double negative ship my friend! I think we will be welcoming a few others aboard soon...if they take the test...

Hmmm, the fluctuation in scores is interesting--age related of course, but anything specific you recall?

Flip flopper?

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Sep 4, 2009 3:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I think the difference between the two scores is a result of me sitting on the fence a little more, i.e. just agreeing or disagreeing and not *strongly* agreeing or disagreeing. Colour me wishy washy.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 6:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Hey Rob--exactly! I saw that aspect as I was taking it...nonetheless, at least we score significantly "below" Dire...hmmm, oh well, in this case, it's a good thing!

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Sep 4, 2009 4:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

dont worry - my scores were even more "fence sitting" than yours.


(astonishing, i must say)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 3, 2009 8:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Yep, I was gonna pick you and me, or you and Rob, or me and Rob...really bizarre that you mentioned it!!!

And, Rasta was DEFN one I would have included as well...

See? That proves my thesis...

And, agree completely about the listing phenomenon. I take the great view that "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it!".

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Sep 3, 2009 7:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

i must have missed that old test. was cool - thanks for the link.

i ended up basically a bit to the left on the economic scale and just a touch up toward authoritarian. hmmmmm

however, basically a fencesitter as far as i could read - lol.


personally, i generally tend toward an Emersonian and Thoreauvian view of life and how to live it. They were basically the "first" american deadheads (who published/spoke much anyways) (obviously English Romanticists being some of the first "deadhead" ideologists since some of the ancient roman writers.

now i am going back to read some Palahniuk and enjoy the fine degradation and monopolization of privacy and life prevalent in this fine country. (at least he makes is somewhat "funny")

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Does that mean you are STALIN?

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Sep 4, 2009 12:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

if my girls are asked, you may just get an answer in the affirmative


(me? I tend to see Ghandi when I look in the mirror)

;)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 12:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Wait a minute...You're looking at ME!?!

I scored a perfect Gandhi!

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Sep 4, 2009 2:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

sweet god!! that explains how I scare the bejeezus out of myself when i wake up in the morning

:-P